December 13, 2012 at 12:12 am #50758
Right now the Nets have two of the same players at a position in which Deron Williams needs, in order for him to thrive. We saw in Utah type of on court relationship D-Will was able to have with Carlos Boozer – one that propelled both of their careers and made them one of the best pick and roll tandem’s in the league. Instead, in Brooklyn, Williams has two players who may be some of the most unskilled offensive rotation players in the league; Reggie Evans and Kris Humphries. These two guys have made their money in this league from their rebound ability, but unfortunately, only one is rebounding (Evans). When Kris Humphries does not rebound, he basically has no value to a basketball team because of his incredibly low skill on offense, he horrible defense, and biggest of all; his extremely low basketball IQ.
With all of this said, it’s pretty apparent that right now, the Nets must deal Humphries (or bench him in the meantime), because he is useless and he is unable to help out Deron Williams on the offensive end. Billy King (I would hope) is already on the phones talking about trading Humphries along with his 2 year, $24 million contract. Even though Humphries isn’t helping the Nets right now, there actually may be teams in which he could help. We saw how inflated his stats were when he was on a bad team the last couple years, maybe a team such as Washington (looking to unload Nene), says to themselves that if they get Humphries now, and he puts up his usual double-double, maybe he can have some really nice trading value next year as a huge expiring contract and a productive player. It might even be able to land them a low first round draft pick from a contender who needs rebounders.
However the case may be, I would really like to see Humphries go, and can only imagine the possibilities of Deron Williams playing with a PF who has some semblance of an offensive game.
What’s everyone else’s opinion on the matter?December 13, 2012 at 10:40 am #50805
I hear ya, Max, and I know a five-game losing streak capped off by losing to the Manhattan Knicks stings, but I think that’s panicking a bit. Trading Hump for an albatross contract like Nene (Wanna really see poor rebounding and defense?) is a panic move. A guy I’d love to have is the on-the-block Paul Millsap but I don’t think we have the pieces to get it done. At this point the only options are: 1) making a panic move for a Nene (would DC make a trade without giving their full lineup a chance to play?) or Bargnani, who surely won’t fix the issues you address. 2) sign a FA like Kenyon Martin or the Birdman or Eddy Curry, but whose minutes do they take? 3) stand pat and allow this team time to jell. Remember, the season is only a quarter of the way through.December 13, 2012 at 10:44 am #50808
At this point it’s too early for any shake-up-the-roster talk. Let’s put that on the shelf for a month. Besides, Hump couldn’t be traded for a month anyway. I think he does have some offensive value, can hit a little open jumper. I know we don’t like how December is going (Brook Lopez is really starting to tick me off) but we can’t panic especially because the Knicks are doing well. No championship is won in December. I don’t believe in the Knicks anyway. The Nets are a bad matchup for the Knicks.December 13, 2012 at 12:53 pm #50812
Jeff Van Gundy called for a moratorium on MVP chants, when fans started chanting it for Melo, until at least 60 games into the season. We should impose one on Hump trade talks until next year, or at least until we survive the Mayan apocalypse. Max makes great points, but logistically, as has been mentioned, it’s not even an option yet.December 13, 2012 at 2:04 pm #50813
Disagree with you both on the thought that it’s too early to start thinking about moving Hump. I know he can’t be dealt till Jan. 15th, but I can assure you that the front office is thinking about trading him right when that date rolls around. The fact is, I want to see more diversity at the PF spot than two guys who do the exact same thing — much like Chicago last year with Boozer and Taj Gibson. One for offense, one for defense.
There’s a reason why Hump is slowly fading from the rotation. The fact is that the Nets (Avery, Billy, Bobby), have never been very keen on Kris Humphries. We saw it in free agency this off-season and we’re seeing it again this season (benching of Hump). If you can recall, the Nets looked at nearly every other PF before finally committing to Hump. They originally agreed to a 3 year, $24m deal, but Billy wanted to keep it at two, knowing that he was our best option at PF and he wouldn’t have agreed to a 3 year deal.
In my eyes, Kris Humphries is not really a basketball player. He’s a guy who can go grab a rebound and has learned over the past couple seasons that he needs to develop a 10-15 foot jumper for him to make up for his other deficiencies. He gets by in the league with his physical attributes and for a team such as the NJ Nets, that was good enough. This year though, we’re trying to win with basketball smarts and intelligence and unfortunately Humphries doesn’t fit that plan.December 13, 2012 at 4:58 pm #50815
It is absolutely too soon to talk about moving Hump if not for the fact that he can’t be moved now, but also, Max, no one was talking trade six games ago when Lopez went down. Especially since the team hasn’t been totally healthy together, nor totally jelled yet. When Brook Lopez is in the lineup they have enough offense that all they need is a role player in that 4 spot, which is what Hump/Evans fill. It was said on the broadcast that Avery likes Evans/Blatche combo better, and when Lopez returns, Hump will be back in the starting lineup.
I’m all for looking for ways to improve the team, and I’m super frustrated as anyone by this “mild” sprain Lopez has, but I’m steadfast against making a panic move. What do you suggest, Max? I don’t want Nene with that ugly contract and I’m not sure that’s an upgrade. At least Hump bodies people and isn’t afraid of contact. I’d happily go for Pau Gasol, but the Lakers want an upgrade, too. As mentioned, I’d love Paul Millsap, but the only way I can see that happening is part of a megadeal with Brook Lopez included. Do you want that?
Season is 20 games old. Sure, let’s think of ways to improve but not look to make rash decisions. Give them a chance to come together, and fairly evaluate what we have.December 13, 2012 at 5:00 pm #50816
BTW, I don’t see the talent around D Will as keeping him from thriving. He’s fourth in the league in assists. If his shot starts falling, then that could be a dangerous deal.December 13, 2012 at 6:00 pm #50817
I absolutely agree that Humphries should be traded ASAP. I didn’t like the contract Billy King gave him because his salary is so inflated that no one is going to be willing to take him. Reality is that Humphries was a good player on a bad team. He’s a decent role player, but Nets already have a role player in Reggie Evans, who quite frankly does everything better than Humphries, including shooting!!! (Remember the fade-away in Boston to beat the shot-clock?)
So what I’m saying is that we should try to trade him, but I don’t see a team wanting him.December 13, 2012 at 6:24 pm #50818
Billy King should have put a $4 mil team buyout in the 2nd year of Humph’s contract.
And Reggie Evans is not a better shooter than Humph, nor is Evans a better finisher.December 13, 2012 at 6:43 pm #50819
My position: we absolutely should at least see what’s out there regarding a deal. For me, I believe we can improve defensively, but it’s fair to say we know what we have in most of our guys. Deron runs the show, Johnson truly has been coming around (his stats last 2 weeks are in line with last year), Gerald is a scrappy guy at the 3, and Brook gives us a great scorer off the guards at the 5. Playing a non scorer at the 5 is tough at times particularly because Gerald’s more of a scrappy guy than scorer. That’s the 1 position we can improve most.
I absolutely agree that Humphries duplicates Evans: both rebound and get in guy’s faces. Evans more obnoxious to tolerate, Humphries more polished offensively. But they’re duplicative. We’d be well served seeing what is out there to get somebody that adds something to the team. We’re already over the cap the next 4 years: so there is no reason to worry about hurting cap flexibility that does not exist and will not exist.
The note about Deron and Boozer is really important: Deron and Boozer have both played worse since leaving Utah. At first with Deron there was wrist surgery. Then there was overcompensating with low % looks to account for last year’s low talent roster. But this year: perhaps this is truly an issue and not a funk. If there’s a chance to upgrade at the 4 the Nets should pounce.
Humphries low Bball IQ was not as obvious last year but when you see other guys like Gerald seem to just know when to make certain plays and see the game progress, you see it. Maybe a Nene upgrades us at the 4, maybe even Boozer is Chicago goes into salary slashing mode. I wouldn’t see it as a panic move: I’ve been thinking about this since preseason. 21 games in is not dispositive, but is a decent sample to address what we have and lack. And we definitely lack a power forward that can score. Defensive concerns of a Nene, Bargnani, or Boozer aside, it’s not as if Humphries is playing Joakim Noah type defense himself.December 13, 2012 at 8:59 pm #50820
As Mike Dantoni has said, the high pick and roll is one of the most efficient plays in basketball and it’s also Deron Williams bets attribute (his ability to run it). How often during a game do we see Deron Williams run a pick and roll with Brook Lopez? Almost never. If anything its more with Humphries and when he does it with Hump, he gets him some great looks. The defense also knows that Humphries is so raw and limited on offense, that they can over play Deron.
I think that with a good offensive PF, who can run the P&R and hurt defenses with Deron Williams, the Nets will be much better off. It will also get D-Will some much easier shots and improve that dreadful FG%.December 14, 2012 at 1:20 am #50821
Yeah, Humph is the guy that is forcing Deron to throw up all those inaccurate 3-pointers.
Get a grip.December 14, 2012 at 10:44 am #50840
I think I agree with you both in part. The Nets absolutely need to run pick and roll more – they likely don’t now because Brook’s value is maximized when he’s featured on the block, and they like Joe on the wing for floor spacing. The solution is absolutely a nice rollman at the 4. That would be an enormous boost and I think would help Deron per a lot of these highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWd3d5Wa6Pw
I am concerned with his shooting on another level though. Some of it to me is that his 3 point attempts are up from Utah, but again: he’s hitting his foul shots, and NBA players make open shots. Get him another scorer at the 4, and maybe he takes better shots. My position: he’s forcing too many shots in Brooklyn. He never seems to shoot when he wants to shoot, in that video I posted it feels like whenever he wants to shoot, he shoots. He needs to do that here — and maybe getting him a better player in the pick and roll helps him do that.
Also, there’s nothing wrong with us admitting that Deron would shoot better if we ran more pick and roll. How much of what the 17-5 Knicks do is pick and roll getting guys better shots – and maybe that helps explain all the career high fg%s over there. Stands to reason that if he’s fallen off from Utah to Brooklyn that we should identify the differences. And I think this, and also the fact that Deron’s 3 point attempts are way up from Utah (whether that’s Avery giving him the green light or not I don’t know) help explain his fg%.December 14, 2012 at 11:10 am #50850
Wow, Max, you’re making me agree with WynnDuffy, which is something I really don’t want to do, but he’s right I think you’re getting a little worked up. I really don’t think the Nets’ offense is an issue that’s holding this team back. During the recent schneid without a doubt defense was the culprit. This team is much different team defensively without Brook Lopez. Who would’ve thunk? D’Antoni has his own issues. I think this thread would be more productive by tossing out proposals – speculating is always fun – rather than simply wishing for better players. I wish LeBron James and Chris Bosh played in Brooklyn, but that isn’t very realistic, nor are any major deals with Kris Humphries as the centerpiece.
I was kicking it around a little myself, thought perhaps J.J. Hickson, Pau Gasol ($19 mil, 32 years old, and chronic knee problems). I couldn’t figure out any deal that would be an upgrade. Nene is not an upgrade, neither is Samuel Dalembert.
Now, on a lighter note, I found this preseason scouting report of Mirza Teletovic. It compares him to Peja Stojakovic. Man, I’d settle for Sasha Vujacic now. Solid rebounder, adequate defender, “he can drill it from deep.” Wow, where was this? Is this the same Teletovic? Hey, I know it’s a very small sample and Euro players need time to adjust, but I feel like I haven’t seen anything at all from this dude. Even clangs open threes.December 14, 2012 at 11:42 am #50855
Dan and Wynn Duffy…please read what jsalkin1 wrote because he does a very nice and thorough job of explaining why D-Will has struggled without a pick an roll game. The guy is a pick and roll point guard, hence why he was one of the best PG’s in the league in Utah. He is NOT a guy who comes off screena for catch and shoots or an isolation guy.
There are three explanations to his awful shooting this year – 1) Injuries 2) Confidence 3) Lack of a big man who can get him easy shots while running the p&r. The numbers explain themselves. Please tell me why he is taking nearly FIVE more there’s per game here, than in Utah? Bottom line is, I think that with Humphries being so offensively inept, and Brook Lopez being mostly a post up guy who doesn’t run p&r’s, it has made D-Will abandon what he’s best at; pick and roll’s. Its why he was able to score 20 a night in Utah and average 10 assists while shooting only 2.0 three’s per game and shooting 45% from the field.
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